From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Fri Apr 13 23:42:36 2012 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 23:42:36 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] =?utf-8?q?Code_for_Bohori=C4=8D_alphabet=3F?= Message-ID: <013801cd19be$575fcff0$061f6fd0$@ijs.si> Dear all, in the context of a historical corpus of Slovene I'd want to mark texts that are written in the Bohori? alphabet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohori%C4%8D_alphabet). So far I've just been using @xml:lang="sl-boh" but I know this is sinful - but I'm not sure how it should be encoded. First, I'm not sure if it even qualifies as a "script", as e.g. I can't find a script for old English which used the long s, but maybe because this only substitutes one character for another - with Bohori? it's more complicated. Even taking it as a script (so I could write sl-Boho), http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/CH.html#CHSH does say that they should be taken from ISO 15924, http://unicode.org/iso15924/iso15924-codes.html and there is no Boho there; I also can't find an extension mechanism as there is with languages. Any tips gratefully received. Best, Toma? -- Toma? Erjavec, http://nl.ijs.si/et/ Dept. of Knowledge Technologies, Jo?ef Stefan Institute, Ljubljana From miles at filmsi.net Sat Apr 14 10:39:03 2012 From: miles at filmsi.net (Martin Srebotnjak) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 10:39:03 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] =?iso-8859-2?q?Code_for_Bohori=E8_alphabet=3F?= In-Reply-To: <013801cd19be$575fcff0$061f6fd0$@ijs.si> References: <013801cd19be$575fcff0$061f6fd0$@ijs.si> Message-ID: Hello, I guess it is just that the ISO-15924 standard should be officially extended with the "Boho" code. Here is a notice of changes from ISO of that standard: http://unicode.org/iso15924/codechanges.html This means they regularly add new scripts if there is a reasonable request. And here are the rules about adding new scripts (see article A.3.3): http://www.unicode.org/iso15924/standard/index.html#annex So I guess the application for "Boho" must be officially presented to the correct ISO body. :) Lp, m. 2012/4/13 Tomaz Erjavec : > Dear all, > in the context of a historical corpus of Slovene I'd want to mark texts that are written in the Bohori? alphabet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohori%C4%8D_alphabet). > So far I've just been using @xml:lang="sl-boh" but I know this is sinful - but I'm not sure how it should be encoded. > First, I'm not sure if it even qualifies as a "script", as e.g. I can't find a script for old English which used the long s, but maybe because this only substitutes one character for another - with Bohori? ?it's more complicated. > Even taking it as a script (so I could write sl-Boho), http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/CH.html#CHSH does say that they should be taken from ISO 15924, http://unicode.org/iso15924/iso15924-codes.html and there is no Boho there; I also can't find an extension mechanism as there is with languages. > Any tips gratefully received. > Best, > Toma? > -- > Toma? Erjavec, http://nl.ijs.si/et/ > Dept. of Knowledge Technologies, Jo?ef Stefan Institute, Ljubljana > > _______________________________________________ > lugos-slo mailing list > lugos-slo na lugos.si > http://liste2.lugos.si/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lugos-slo From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Sat Apr 14 19:22:35 2012 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 19:22:35 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] =?utf-8?q?Code_for_Bohori=C4=8D_alphabet=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <013801cd19be$575fcff0$061f6fd0$@ijs.si> Message-ID: <018c01cd1a63$2f1ac360$8d504a20$@ijs.si> Zdravo, hvala za povezave - in pardon za angle??ino, sem poslal isto vpra?anje tudi na tei-l. Tam dobil nasvet kako trenutno ozna?it, ko ni v ISO, in sicer sl-x-Boho, pri ?emer je -x za privatne raz?iritve. Verjetno res ne bi bilo slabo prijavit na ISO (pa potem tudi dajn?ico in metel?ico), me pa kar glava zaboli, ko vidim ta njihova pravila. No, mogo?e vseeno ugriznem v to kislo jabelko.. lp, Toma? -----Original Message----- From: lugos-slo-bounces+tomaz.erjavec=ijs.si at lugos.si [mailto:lugos-slo-bounces+tomaz.erjavec=ijs.si at lugos.si] On Behalf Of Martin Srebotnjak Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2012 10:39 AM To: Linux in slovenjenje Subject: Re: [LUGOS-SLO] Code for Bohori? alphabet? Hello, I guess it is just that the ISO-15924 standard should be officially extended with the "Boho" code. Here is a notice of changes from ISO of that standard: http://unicode.org/iso15924/codechanges.html This means they regularly add new scripts if there is a reasonable request. And here are the rules about adding new scripts (see article A.3.3): http://www.unicode.org/iso15924/standard/index.html#annex So I guess the application for "Boho" must be officially presented to the correct ISO body. :) Lp, m. 2012/4/13 Tomaz Erjavec : > Dear all, > in the context of a historical corpus of Slovene I'd want to mark texts that are written in the Bohori? alphabet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohori%C4%8D_alphabet). > So far I've just been using @xml:lang="sl-boh" but I know this is sinful - but I'm not sure how it should be encoded. > First, I'm not sure if it even qualifies as a "script", as e.g. I can't find a script for old English which used the long s, but maybe because this only substitutes one character for another - with Bohori? it's more complicated. > Even taking it as a script (so I could write sl-Boho), http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/CH.html#CHSH does say that they should be taken from ISO 15924, http://unicode.org/iso15924/iso15924-codes.html and there is no Boho there; I also can't find an extension mechanism as there is with languages. > Any tips gratefully received. > Best, > Toma? > -- > Toma? Erjavec, http://nl.ijs.si/et/ > Dept. of Knowledge Technologies, Jo?ef Stefan Institute, Ljubljana > > _______________________________________________ > lugos-slo mailing list > lugos-slo at lugos.si > http://liste2.lugos.si/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lugos-slo _______________________________________________ lugos-slo mailing list lugos-slo at lugos.si http://liste2.lugos.si/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lugos-slo From primozz.peterlin at gmail.com Sat Apr 14 23:02:59 2012 From: primozz.peterlin at gmail.com (Primoz PETERLIN) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 23:02:59 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] =?utf-8?q?Code_for_Bohori=C4=8D_alphabet=3F?= In-Reply-To: <018c01cd1a63$2f1ac360$8d504a20$@ijs.si> References: <013801cd19be$575fcff0$061f6fd0$@ijs.si> <018c01cd1a63$2f1ac360$8d504a20$@ijs.si> Message-ID: Kaj nismo pred mnogimi leti - precej pred sprejetjem ISO 15924 - ?e razmi?ljali tudi o vklju?itvi znakov dajn?ice in metel?ice v ISO 10646? http://nl.ijs.si/isjt98/zbornik/sdjt98-Peterlin.pdf Lep pozdrav, Primo? 14. april 2012 19:22 je oseba Tomaz Erjavec napisala: > Zdravo, > hvala za povezave - in pardon za angle??ino, sem poslal isto vpra?anje tudi na tei-l. > Tam dobil nasvet kako trenutno ozna?it, ko ni v ISO, in sicer sl-x-Boho, pri ?emer je -x za privatne raz?iritve. > Verjetno res ne bi bilo slabo prijavit na ISO (pa potem tudi dajn?ico in metel?ico), me pa kar glava zaboli, ko vidim ta njihova pravila. No, mogo?e vseeno ugriznem v to kislo jabelko.. > lp, > Toma? > > -----Original Message----- > From: lugos-slo-bounces+tomaz.erjavec=ijs.si at lugos.si [mailto:lugos-slo-bounces+tomaz.erjavec=ijs.si at lugos.si] On Behalf Of Martin Srebotnjak > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2012 10:39 AM > To: Linux in slovenjenje > Subject: Re: [LUGOS-SLO] Code for Bohori? alphabet? > > Hello, > > I guess it is just that the ISO-15924 standard should be officially > extended with the "Boho" code. > > Here is a notice of changes from ISO of that standard: > http://unicode.org/iso15924/codechanges.html > > This means they regularly add new scripts if ?there is a reasonable request. > > And here are the rules about adding new scripts (see article A.3.3): > http://www.unicode.org/iso15924/standard/index.html#annex > > So I guess the application for "Boho" must be officially presented to > the correct ISO body. :) > > Lp, m. > > 2012/4/13 Tomaz Erjavec : >> Dear all, >> in the context of a historical corpus of Slovene I'd want to mark texts that are written in the Bohori? alphabet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohori%C4%8D_alphabet). >> So far I've just been using @xml:lang="sl-boh" but I know this is sinful - but I'm not sure how it should be encoded. >> First, I'm not sure if it even qualifies as a "script", as e.g. I can't find a script for old English which used the long s, but maybe because this only substitutes one character for another - with Bohori? ?it's more complicated. >> Even taking it as a script (so I could write sl-Boho), http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/CH.html#CHSH does say that they should be taken from ISO 15924, http://unicode.org/iso15924/iso15924-codes.html and there is no Boho there; I also can't find an extension mechanism as there is with languages. >> Any tips gratefully received. >> Best, >> Toma? >> -- >> Toma? Erjavec, http://nl.ijs.si/et/ >> Dept. of Knowledge Technologies, Jo?ef Stefan Institute, Ljubljana >> >> _______________________________________________ >> lugos-slo mailing list >> lugos-slo at lugos.si >> http://liste2.lugos.si/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lugos-slo > _______________________________________________ > lugos-slo mailing list > lugos-slo at lugos.si > http://liste2.lugos.si/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lugos-slo > > _______________________________________________ > lugos-slo mailing list > lugos-slo at lugos.si > http://liste2.lugos.si/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lugos-slo From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Sun Apr 15 21:03:40 2012 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:03:40 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] =?utf-8?q?Code_for_Bohori=C4=8D_alphabet=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <013801cd19be$575fcff0$061f6fd0$@ijs.si> <018c01cd1a63$2f1ac360$8d504a20$@ijs.si> Message-ID: <01f501cd1b3a$785bfd00$6913f700$@ijs.si> Zdravo Primo?, sem ?akal, kdaj se bo? oglasil! Na ta ?lanek sem pa res ?isto pozabil, kako je simpati?en.. Samo, da smo tam pisali, da bi nekdo to moral naredit, sedaj pa po?asi uvidimo, da moramo sami :) Medtem sem na TEI-l dobil tudi odgovor za IETF/IANA, ki je po moje kraj?i in bolj uporaben; ISO pa po?as pa zihr.. lp, Toma? -----Original Message----- From: lugos-slo-bounces+tomaz.erjavec=ijs.si at lugos.si [mailto:lugos-slo-bounces+tomaz.erjavec=ijs.si at lugos.si] On Behalf Of Primoz PETERLIN Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2012 11:03 PM To: Linux in slovenjenje Subject: Re: [LUGOS-SLO] Code for Bohori? alphabet? Kaj nismo pred mnogimi leti - precej pred sprejetjem ISO 15924 - ?e razmi?ljali tudi o vklju?itvi znakov dajn?ice in metel?ice v ISO 10646? http://nl.ijs.si/isjt98/zbornik/sdjt98-Peterlin.pdf Lep pozdrav, Primo? 14. april 2012 19:22 je oseba Tomaz Erjavec napisala: > Zdravo, > hvala za povezave - in pardon za angle??ino, sem poslal isto vpra?anje tudi na tei-l. > Tam dobil nasvet kako trenutno ozna?it, ko ni v ISO, in sicer sl-x-Boho, pri ?emer je -x za privatne raz?iritve. > Verjetno res ne bi bilo slabo prijavit na ISO (pa potem tudi dajn?ico in metel?ico), me pa kar glava zaboli, ko vidim ta njihova pravila. No, mogo?e vseeno ugriznem v to kislo jabelko.. > lp, > Toma? > > -----Original Message----- > From: lugos-slo-bounces+tomaz.erjavec=ijs.si at lugos.si [mailto:lugos-slo-bounces+tomaz.erjavec=ijs.si at lugos.si] On Behalf Of Martin Srebotnjak > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2012 10:39 AM > To: Linux in slovenjenje > Subject: Re: [LUGOS-SLO] Code for Bohori? alphabet? > > Hello, > > I guess it is just that the ISO-15924 standard should be officially > extended with the "Boho" code. > > Here is a notice of changes from ISO of that standard: > http://unicode.org/iso15924/codechanges.html > > This means they regularly add new scripts if there is a reasonable request. > > And here are the rules about adding new scripts (see article A.3.3): > http://www.unicode.org/iso15924/standard/index.html#annex > > So I guess the application for "Boho" must be officially presented to > the correct ISO body. :) > > Lp, m. > > 2012/4/13 Tomaz Erjavec : >> Dear all, >> in the context of a historical corpus of Slovene I'd want to mark texts that are written in the Bohori? alphabet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohori%C4%8D_alphabet). >> So far I've just been using @xml:lang="sl-boh" but I know this is sinful - but I'm not sure how it should be encoded. >> First, I'm not sure if it even qualifies as a "script", as e.g. I can't find a script for old English which used the long s, but maybe because this only substitutes one character for another - with Bohori? it's more complicated. >> Even taking it as a script (so I could write sl-Boho), http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/CH.html#CHSH does say that they should be taken from ISO 15924, http://unicode.org/iso15924/iso15924-codes.html and there is no Boho there; I also can't find an extension mechanism as there is with languages. >> Any tips gratefully received. >> Best, >> Toma? >> -- >> Toma? Erjavec, http://nl.ijs.si/et/ >> Dept. of Knowledge Technologies, Jo?ef Stefan Institute, Ljubljana >> >> _______________________________________________ >> lugos-slo mailing list >> lugos-slo at lugos.si >> http://liste2.lugos.si/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lugos-slo > _______________________________________________ > lugos-slo mailing list > lugos-slo at lugos.si > http://liste2.lugos.si/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lugos-slo > > _______________________________________________ > lugos-slo mailing list > lugos-slo at lugos.si > http://liste2.lugos.si/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lugos-slo _______________________________________________ lugos-slo mailing list lugos-slo at lugos.si http://liste2.lugos.si/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lugos-slo From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Sun Apr 15 21:07:50 2012 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:07:50 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] =?utf-8?q?Code_for_Bohori=C4=8D_alphabet=3F?= In-Reply-To: <001201cd1b33$8fb5a2a0$af20e7e0$@net> References: <013801cd19be$575fcff0$061f6fd0$@ijs.si> <001201cd1b33$8fb5a2a0$af20e7e0$@net> Message-ID: <01f701cd1b3b$0dce0b80$296a2280$@ijs.si> Dear Deborah, thanks a lot for your informative mail ? and, of course, to Toma, who steered me in the right direction; we've had some exchange off the list, and settled on sl-x-Boho. But even now, reading rfc 5646, I still think it is a script, rather than variant: 2.2.3. Script Subtag are used to indicate the script or _writing system variations_ that distinguish the written forms of a language 2.2.5. Variant Subtags are used to indicate additional, well-recognized variations that define _a language or its dialects_ I'd say Bohori? is clearly a writing system variation, rather than a language ? that didn?t change suddenly with the switch to Gajica (~1850), which is what we use today (a-z + ???). If scripts, not only variants can be registered with IANA, I?d certainly like to do it ? except, while I?m at it, I?d also propose two others, which were briefly in vogue in Slovenia the mid-19th century. I agree that back-changing sl-x-Boho to sl-Boho is a pain, and time is actually tight, as I?m presenting the corpus in about a month ? is an IANA that fast? My question was also CCed to the Linux localisation user group of Slovenia, where I got links to ISO-15924, in particular: Notice of changes from ISO of that standard: http://unicode.org/iso15924/codechanges.html Rules about adding new scripts (see article A.3.3): http://www.unicode.org/iso15924/standard/index.html#annex This does look more complicated though. All the best, Toma? From: Deborah W. Anderson [mailto:dwanders at sonic.net] Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 8:14 PM To: ttasovac at TRANSPOETIKA.ORG; TEI-L at LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU Cc: tomaz.erjavec at IJS.SI Subject: RE: Code for Bohori? alphabet? Dear Toma? (and Toma), To add a bit to what Toma has written? From mojca.miklavec.lists at gmail.com Mon Apr 16 00:47:15 2012 From: mojca.miklavec.lists at gmail.com (Mojca Miklavec) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 00:47:15 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] =?utf-8?q?Code_for_Bohori=C4=8D_alphabet=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <013801cd19be$575fcff0$061f6fd0$@ijs.si> Message-ID: 2012/4/14 Martin Srebotnjak wrote: > Hello, > > I guess it is just that the ISO-15924 standard should be officially > extended with the "Boho" code. (Glede na to, da ne odgovarjam na angle?ke liste, bom pisala kar v sloven??ini.) Kljub temu, da razumem, zakaj bi bilo za jezikoslovce to zelo koristno, se mi zdi nova oznaka za "Script" (ISO-15924) enaka perverzija, kot ?e bi Nemci zahtevali svojo oznako Deut namesto Latn, ker v Nem?iji (za razliko od ?vicarjev) pi?ejo ? namesto ss. Nenazadnje bi lahko registrirali tudi gajico, pa potem argumentirali ?e, da Slovenci potrebujemo ?e dodatno ?tiri?rkovno kodo, ker je na?a abeceda le podmno?ica gajice. V standardu sicer obstaja nekaj podvrst latinice (Fraktur, Gaelic). Niti Grki nimajo dveh oznak za monotoni?no in politoni?no verzijo zapisa. V "IANA Language Subtag Registry" se uporablja el-polyton in el-monoton. Tisto, kar bi zares pomagalo, bi bila oznaka tipa "Latn-Boho", "Latn-Metl", "Latn-Gajc", ... vendar IANA v svojem registru ne predvideva vartiant zapisa (Script), temve? le variante jezika. Slovenci so npr. ?e zaprosili za standardizacijo oznake tipa "sl-rozaj-njiva-1994": - rozaj: Resian - njiva: The Njiva dialect of Resian (The dialect of Gniva/Njiva is one of the four major local dialects of Resian) - 1994: Standardized Resian orthography kar namiguje na to, da ne bi smela biti te?ava registrirati nove zna?ke, le da se strinjam s Toma?em, da bohori?ica ni ravno varianta jezika, pa? pa varianta zapisa. Po drugi strani bi bilo dobiti oznako "sl-bohoric" (IANA Language Subtag Registry) bistveno la?je in hitreje od "sl-Boho" (ISO 15924). Morda ne bi bilo povsem pravilno, bi bilo pa bolj verjetno, da bi bila nova oznaka odobrena. On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:22, Tomaz Erjavec wrote: > > Verjetno res ne bi bilo slabo prijavit na ISO (pa potem tudi dajn?ico in metel?ico), me pa kar glava zaboli, ko vidim ta njihova pravila. No, mogo?e vseeno ugriznem v to kislo jabelko.. ... ?e pa ?e ?elite kisla jabolka, predlagajte raje raz?iritev standarda, da bo mogo?e dodajati variante skriptam in ne le jezikom. ?e za?nete z bohori?ico, danj?ico, metel?ico, gajico, varianto za romanizacijo makedon??ine ... seznamu ne bo konca. Stavim, da ima skoraj vsaka dr?ava po nekaj variant zapisa svojega jezika skozi zgodovino in stla?iti vse izmed njih v vrhnji nivo (trenutno je ?al en sam) se mi zdi enako smiselno kot zaprositi za ISO 639-2 kodo za prekmur??ino. Mojca From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Mon Apr 16 16:48:16 2012 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 16:48:16 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] =?utf-8?q?Code_for_Bohori=C4=8D_alphabet=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <013801cd19be$575fcff0$061f6fd0$@ijs.si> Message-ID: <02b901cd1bdf$f560a120$e021e360$@ijs.si> Zdravo Mojca, ne bi mogla lep?e napisat, v resnici skoraj identi?no kot je napisal tudi Doug Ewell, njegov mail na dnu tega. Torej, ja, predlagamo 3 nove variante sloven??ine. Spodaj moji predlogi, v tako ljubih mi TLAjih, pa naj kdo sporo?i ?e ima kaj proti, sicer pa to po?ljem na IANA. lp, Toma? Type: variant Subtag: boh Description: The Bohori? alphabet for Slovene Prefix: sl Comments: The Bohori? alphabet (Slovene: bohori?ica) was an orthography used for Slovene between the 16th and 19th centuries. Its name is derived from Adam Bohori?, who codified the alphabet in his book Articae Horulae Succisivae, published in 1584. %% Type: variant Subtag: dan Description: The Dajnko alphabet for Slovene Prefix: sl Comments: The Dajnko alphabet for Slovene (Slovene: dajn?ica) was a Slovene writing system invented by Peter Dajnko. It was used in from 1824 to 1839 mostly in Styria (in what is now eastern Slovenia). %% Type: variant Subtag: met Description: The Metelko alphabet for Slovene Prefix: sl Comments: The Metelko alphabet (Slovene: metel?ica) was a Slovene writing system developed by Franc Serafin Metelko. It was used by a small group of authors from 1825 to 1833 but it was never generally accepted. %% Pri tem ?e ugotavljam, da je sloven??ina v http://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry definirana kot: %% Type: language Subtag: sl Description: Slovenian Added: 2005-10-16 Suppress-Script: Latn Po moje bi bilo dobro dodati ?e en Description: Slovene lp, Toma? -----Original Message----- From: lugos-slo-bounces+tomaz.erjavec=ijs.si at lugos.si [mailto:lugos-slo-bounces+tomaz.erjavec=ijs.si at lugos.si] On Behalf Of Mojca Miklavec Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 12:47 AM To: Linux in slovenjenje Subject: Re: [LUGOS-SLO] Code for Bohori? alphabet? 2012/4/14 Martin Srebotnjak wrote: > Hello, > > I guess it is just that the ISO-15924 standard should be officially > extended with the "Boho" code. (Glede na to, da ne odgovarjam na angle?ke liste, bom pisala kar v sloven??ini.) Kljub temu, da razumem, zakaj bi bilo za jezikoslovce to zelo koristno, se mi zdi nova oznaka za "Script" (ISO-15924) enaka perverzija, kot ?e bi Nemci zahtevali svojo oznako Deut namesto Latn, ker v Nem?iji (za razliko od ?vicarjev) pi?ejo ? namesto ss. Nenazadnje bi lahko registrirali tudi gajico, pa potem argumentirali ?e, da Slovenci potrebujemo ?e dodatno ?tiri?rkovno kodo, ker je na?a abeceda le podmno?ica gajice. V standardu sicer obstaja nekaj podvrst latinice (Fraktur, Gaelic). Niti Grki nimajo dveh oznak za monotoni?no in politoni?no verzijo zapisa. V "IANA Language Subtag Registry" se uporablja el-polyton in el-monoton. Tisto, kar bi zares pomagalo, bi bila oznaka tipa "Latn-Boho", "Latn-Metl", "Latn-Gajc", ... vendar IANA v svojem registru ne predvideva vartiant zapisa (Script), temve? le variante jezika. Slovenci so npr. ?e zaprosili za standardizacijo oznake tipa "sl-rozaj-njiva-1994": - rozaj: Resian - njiva: The Njiva dialect of Resian (The dialect of Gniva/Njiva is one of the four major local dialects of Resian) - 1994: Standardized Resian orthography kar namiguje na to, da ne bi smela biti te?ava registrirati nove zna?ke, le da se strinjam s Toma?em, da bohori?ica ni ravno varianta jezika, pa? pa varianta zapisa. Po drugi strani bi bilo dobiti oznako "sl-bohoric" (IANA Language Subtag Registry) bistveno la?je in hitreje od "sl-Boho" (ISO 15924). Morda ne bi bilo povsem pravilno, bi bilo pa bolj verjetno, da bi bila nova oznaka odobrena. On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:22, Tomaz Erjavec wrote: > > Verjetno res ne bi bilo slabo prijavit na ISO (pa potem tudi dajn?ico in metel?ico), me pa kar glava zaboli, ko vidim ta njihova pravila. No, mogo?e vseeno ugriznem v to kislo jabelko.. ... ?e pa ?e ?elite kisla jabolka, predlagajte raje raz?iritev standarda, da bo mogo?e dodajati variante skriptam in ne le jezikom. ?e za?nete z bohori?ico, danj?ico, metel?ico, gajico, varianto za romanizacijo makedon??ine ... seznamu ne bo konca. Stavim, da ima skoraj vsaka dr?ava po nekaj variant zapisa svojega jezika skozi zgodovino in stla?iti vse izmed njih v vrhnji nivo (trenutno je ?al en sam) se mi zdi enako smiselno kot zaprositi za ISO 639-2 kodo za prekmur??ino. Mojca _______________________________________________ lugos-slo mailing list lugos-slo at lugos.si http://liste2.lugos.si/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lugos-slo Hi Debbie and Toma?, I understand the confusion over the terminology used in RFC 5646, in particular the phrase ?writing system variations? in Section 2.2.3. As I recall, that wording was meant to explain the presence of distinct subtags for things like Old Church Slavonic (?Cyrs?) and Fraktur and Gaelic Latin (?Latf? and ?Latg?), as well as multiple subtags for Chinese (?Hani?, ?Hans?, ?Hant?) and subtags for combinations of scripts used to write Japanese and Korean. These are the distinctions made in ISO 15924. In each of these cases, there are visual distinctions between the ?variations,? not simply differences in the set of letters used. For example, there are no separate ISO 15924 code elements or script subtags for the modern English alphabet, the modern French alphabet, the modern Italian alphabet, etc. Each of these language-specific alphabets uses a different subset of letters from the overall Latin script, but they are not different scripts. I also understand the confusion over the description of variant subtags in RFC 5646. The focus during RFC 5646 development was certainly on using variant subtags for dialects, but over time, an equally important use for variants has turned out to be for alphabets and orthographies. It is an error to think that BCP 47 variant subtags are ?only? for dialects or ?only? for orthographies. They can serve many different needs. Variant subtags really are the correct way to tag an orthography or a historical alphabet. By examining the existing variant subtags in the Registry, you can find many that serve a need similar to that for Bohori? : ?1901? for the German orthography before the 1996 reform ?1996? for the current German orthography ?1994? for one used for Resian, a Slovenian dialect ?baku1926? for a Latin-script alphabet used for multiple Soviet republics ?hognorsk? for a Norwegian orthography ?kkcor? and ?uccor? and ?ucrcor? for Cornish orthographies ?monoton? and ?polyton? for Greek with and without tone and breathing marks ?petr1708? and ?luna1918? for Russian orthographies An additional point is that script subtags are strictly limited to those assigned in ISO 15924. This is analogous to the assignment of two- and three-letter language and extlang subtags (ISO 639) and region subtags (ISO 3166 and UN M.49). There is no provision to register these types of subtags outside of the standards. I can also virtually assure you that the ISO 15924 committee will not consider Bohori? a distinct script from Latin, and will not assign it a code element. Let me know how I can assist, if desired, in preparing a proposal for a BCP 47 variant subtag for Bohori?, and perhaps for the other two alphabets or orthographies to which you alluded. Toma?, you asked Debbie about the IANA time frame. There is a two-week review period after proposals are posted to the ietf-languages list. Contributors may offer suggestions during this time; minor changes do not necessarily reset the clock, while major changes may do so. After the review period is over and the Reviewer submits the changes to IANA, it is usually only a matter of a few days before IANA posts the updated Registry. If you have a time constraint, you will want to submit proposals soon. -- Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA http://www.ewellic.org | @DougEwell ? From mojca.miklavec.lists at gmail.com Mon Apr 16 17:30:31 2012 From: mojca.miklavec.lists at gmail.com (Mojca Miklavec) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 17:30:31 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] =?utf-8?q?Code_for_Bohori=C4=8D_alphabet=3F?= In-Reply-To: <02b901cd1bdf$f560a120$e021e360$@ijs.si> References: <013801cd19be$575fcff0$061f6fd0$@ijs.si> <02b901cd1bdf$f560a120$e021e360$@ijs.si> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 16:48, Tomaz Erjavec wrote: > Zdravo Mojca, > ne bi mogla lep?e napisat, v resnici skoraj identi?no kot je napisal tudi Doug Ewell, njegov mail na dnu tega. > Torej, ja, predlagamo 3 nove variante sloven??ine. > Spodaj moji predlogi, v tako ljubih mi TLAjih, pa naj kdo sporo?i ?e ima kaj proti, sicer pa to po?ljem na IANA. Super. (Ko boste prijavljali metel?ico in dajn?ico na Unicode, se priporo?am za kak?no mini obvestilo. Jaz imam tudi v na?rtu zaprositi za en znak, pa si ?e nisem vzela ?asa.) Zdi se mi v redu, jaz bi kve?jemu predlagala dalj?a imena, saj ni razloga, da bi se omejevali z dol?ino imen variant. Primeri obstoje?ih imen: hognorsk, itihasa, hepburn, fonxsamp, polyton, monotoy, ... S kraj?imi imeni je sama zmeda (vsi tako radi uporabljajo "sl" za Slovenijo ali "si" za sloven??ino :). Jaz bi raje predlagala nekaj v smislu "bohoric", "metelko", "dajnko", ... Mimogrede se jih lahko vpra?a dvoje: 1.) Trenutno so v uporabi: Type: extlang Type: grandfathered Type: language Type: redundant Type: region Type: script Type: variant Morda bi lahko v prihodnosti dodali nekaj v smislu "Type: scriptvariant", ?etudi se nana?a na jezik. 2.) Kako se pravilno ozna?i rezijan??ino, zapisano v metel?ici. Mojca > Type: variant > Subtag: boh > Description: ?The Bohori? alphabet for Slovene > Prefix: sl > Comments: The Bohori? alphabet (Slovene: bohori?ica) was an orthography used for Slovene between the 16th and 19th centuries. Its name is derived from Adam Bohori?, who codified the alphabet in his book Articae Horulae Succisivae, published in 1584. > %% > Type: variant > Subtag: dan > Description: The Dajnko alphabet for Slovene > Prefix: sl > Comments: The Dajnko alphabet for Slovene (Slovene: dajn?ica) was a Slovene writing system invented by Peter Dajnko. It was used in from 1824 to 1839 mostly in Styria (in what is now eastern Slovenia). > %% > Type: variant > Subtag: met > Description: The Metelko alphabet for Slovene > Prefix: sl > Comments: The Metelko alphabet (Slovene: metel?ica) was a Slovene writing system developed by Franc Serafin Metelko. It was used by a small group of authors from 1825 to 1833 but it was never generally accepted. > %% > > Pri tem ?e ugotavljam, da je sloven??ina v http://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry definirana kot: > %% > Type: language > Subtag: sl > Description: Slovenian > Added: 2005-10-16 > Suppress-Script: Latn > > Po moje bi bilo dobro dodati ?e en > Description: Slovene From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Tue Apr 24 12:24:24 2012 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:24:24 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] =?utf-8?q?Code_for_Bohori=C4=8D_alphabet=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <013801cd19be$575fcff0$061f6fd0$@ijs.si> <02b901cd1bdf$f560a120$e021e360$@ijs.si> Message-ID: <01a101cd2204$6eb2d640$4c1882c0$@ijs.si> Zdravo, pripet dokon?en seznam predlogov za IANA, razen seveda ?e ?e kdo kaj najde.. > Super. (Ko boste prijavljali metel?ico in dajn?ico na Unicode, se > priporo?am za kak?no mini obvestilo. Jaz imam tudi v na?rtu zaprositi > za en znak, pa si ?e nisem vzela ?asa.) Seveda, ko - in ?e! - to naredimo, povem. > Zdi se mi v redu, jaz bi kve?jemu predlagala dalj?a imena, saj ni > razloga, da bi se omejevali z dol?ino imen variant. Saj je res ni. Popravljeno. > Mimogrede se jih lahko vpra?a dvoje: Na IANA se samo po?lje, res pa lahko vpra?am D. Ewela, ki je precej pomagal pri vsem skupaj. lp, Toma? > 2.) Kako se pravilno ozna?i rezijan??ino, zapisano v metel?ici. Uf, ta je pa prav zlobna. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: slovene-iana-2012-04-24.txt Url: http://liste2.lugos.si/pipermail/lugos-slo/attachments/20120424/f272076e/attachment-0001.txt From smihael at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 17:51:05 2012 From: smihael at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Mihael_Simoni=C4=8D?=) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 17:51:05 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] =?utf-8?q?Code_for_Bohori=C4=8D_alphabet=3F?= In-Reply-To: <01a101cd2204$6eb2d640$4c1882c0$@ijs.si> References: <013801cd19be$575fcff0$061f6fd0$@ijs.si> <02b901cd1bdf$f560a120$e021e360$@ijs.si> <01a101cd2204$6eb2d640$4c1882c0$@ijs.si> Message-ID: Kaj pa prekmur??ina? Na Wikipediji je bilo veliko debate o tem. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Prekmurian ?e pa koga zanima vse ozadje: http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posebno:Iskanje?search=prekmur%C5%A1%C4%8Dina&prefix=Wikipedija%3APod+lipo%2FArhiv&fulltext=Iskanje+po+arhivih&fulltext=Search in http://sl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Posebno%3AIskanje&profile=default&search=prekmurska+wikipedija+prefix%3AWikipedija%3APod+lipo%2FArhiv&fulltext=Search lp, 2012/4/24 Tomaz Erjavec > Zdravo, > pripet dokon?en seznam predlogov za IANA, razen seveda ?e ?e kdo kaj > najde.. > > > Super. (Ko boste prijavljali metel?ico in dajn?ico na Unicode, se > > priporo?am za kak?no mini obvestilo. Jaz imam tudi v na?rtu zaprositi > > za en znak, pa si ?e nisem vzela ?asa.) > Seveda, ko - in ?e! - to naredimo, povem. > > > Zdi se mi v redu, jaz bi kve?jemu predlagala dalj?a imena, saj ni > > razloga, da bi se omejevali z dol?ino imen variant. > Saj je res ni. Popravljeno. > > > Mimogrede se jih lahko vpra?a dvoje: > Na IANA se samo po?lje, res pa lahko vpra?am D. Ewela, ki je precej > pomagal pri vsem skupaj. > lp, > Toma? > > > 2.) Kako se pravilno ozna?i rezijan??ino, zapisano v metel?ici. > Uf, ta je pa prav zlobna. > > _______________________________________________ > lugos-slo mailing list > lugos-slo na lugos.si > http://liste2.lugos.si/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lugos-slo > > -- Mihael S. -------------- naslednji del -------------- HTML priponka je pre?i??ena... URL: http://liste2.lugos.si/pipermail/lugos-slo/attachments/20120424/bc814eab/attachment.htm From mojca.miklavec.lists at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 18:41:34 2012 From: mojca.miklavec.lists at gmail.com (Mojca Miklavec) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 18:41:34 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] =?utf-8?q?Code_for_Bohori=C4=8D_alphabet=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <013801cd19be$575fcff0$061f6fd0$@ijs.si> <02b901cd1bdf$f560a120$e021e360$@ijs.si> <01a101cd2204$6eb2d640$4c1882c0$@ijs.si> Message-ID: 2012/4/24 Mihael Simoni?: > Kaj pa prekmur??ina? Je bila to replika na mojo rezijan??ino v bohori?ici? ;) Mojca PS: ?ment ... jaz bi z veseljem brala w?kipedijo, ko bi potrebovala sprostitev ;) A so morali blokirati predlog? PPS: Pa nujno bo uversti ?e dodatne kvalifikatorje za skripte in lokacije, da bo mogo?e opisati npr. prekmurski dialekt sloven??ine, kakr?nega govorijo v kraju Dobrovnik v Prekmurju v Sloveniji, zapisan v mad?arski podvarianti latinice: sl-prekmure-Latn-SlovHung-SI-PREKMURE-DOBRONAK From vito.smolej at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 22:02:39 2012 From: vito.smolej at gmail.com (Vito Smolej) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 22:02:39 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] script in skript Message-ID: Pri Mozilli sva imela diskusijo z Matja?em in sva sklenila, da skripta -e (f) nima ve? vstopa Mozillino lokalizacijo, pa? pa - kot geslovnik zaenkrat predlaga, delno tudi SP - skript -a (m). O tem smo imeli tu http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english_to_slovenian/computers%3A_software/4780657-script.html ?ivahno diskusijo. Sedaj je kot je, ampak lepo bi bilo, ko bi si z malo domi?ljije (sreda na matematiki_ idr.) ustvarili malo bolj doma? ekvivalent. LP Vito -------------- naslednji del -------------- HTML priponka je pre?i??ena... URL: http://liste2.lugos.si/pipermail/lugos-slo/attachments/20120424/8ab38e21/attachment.htm From primozz.peterlin at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 22:46:36 2012 From: primozz.peterlin at gmail.com (Primoz PETERLIN) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 22:46:36 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] =?utf-8?q?Code_for_Bohori=C4=8D_alphabet=3F?= In-Reply-To: <01a101cd2204$6eb2d640$4c1882c0$@ijs.si> References: <013801cd19be$575fcff0$061f6fd0$@ijs.si> <02b901cd1bdf$f560a120$e021e360$@ijs.si> <01a101cd2204$6eb2d640$4c1882c0$@ijs.si> Message-ID: Meni se zdi v redu. Lep pozdrav, Primo? 24. april 2012 12:24 je oseba Tomaz Erjavec napisala: > Zdravo, > pripet dokon?en seznam predlogov za IANA, razen seveda ?e ?e kdo kaj najde.. > >> Super. (Ko boste prijavljali metel?ico in dajn?ico na Unicode, se >> priporo?am za kak?no mini obvestilo. Jaz imam tudi v na?rtu zaprositi >> za en znak, pa si ?e nisem vzela ?asa.) > Seveda, ko - in ?e! - to naredimo, povem. > >> Zdi se mi v redu, jaz bi kve?jemu predlagala dalj?a imena, saj ni >> razloga, da bi se omejevali z dol?ino imen variant. > Saj je res ni. Popravljeno. > >> Mimogrede se jih lahko vpra?a dvoje: > Na IANA se samo po?lje, res pa lahko vpra?am D. Ewela, ki je precej pomagal pri vsem skupaj. > lp, > Toma? > >> 2.) Kako se pravilno ozna?i rezijan??ino, zapisano v metel?ici. > Uf, ta je pa prav zlobna. > > _______________________________________________ > lugos-slo mailing list > lugos-slo at lugos.si > http://liste2.lugos.si/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lugos-slo > From primozz.peterlin at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 22:46:13 2012 From: primozz.peterlin at gmail.com (Primoz PETERLIN) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 22:46:13 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] =?utf-8?q?Code_for_Bohori=C4=8D_alphabet=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <013801cd19be$575fcff0$061f6fd0$@ijs.si> <02b901cd1bdf$f560a120$e021e360$@ijs.si> <01a101cd2204$6eb2d640$4c1882c0$@ijs.si> Message-ID: Ali pa ?e preprosto registriramo vsak svoj idiolekt? :) Lep pozdrav, Primo? 24. april 2012 18:41 je oseba Mojca Miklavec napisala: > 2012/4/24 Mihael Simoni?: >> Kaj pa prekmur??ina? > > Je bila to replika na mojo rezijan??ino v bohori?ici? ;) > > Mojca > > PS: ?ment ... jaz bi z veseljem brala w?kipedijo, ko bi potrebovala > sprostitev ;) A so morali blokirati predlog? > > PPS: Pa nujno bo uversti ?e dodatne kvalifikatorje za skripte in > lokacije, da bo mogo?e opisati npr. prekmurski dialekt sloven??ine, > kakr?nega govorijo v kraju Dobrovnik v Prekmurju v Sloveniji, zapisan > v mad?arski podvarianti latinice: > ? ?sl-prekmure-Latn-SlovHung-SI-PREKMURE-DOBRONAK > _______________________________________________ > lugos-slo mailing list > lugos-slo at lugos.si > http://liste2.lugos.si/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lugos-slo From matej.urban at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 09:24:35 2012 From: matej.urban at gmail.com (Matej Urban) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 09:24:35 +0200 Subject: [LUGOS-SLO] script in skript In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Super, opozoril bi le, da je script - skript ?e vsaj dve leti zaveden v pojmovniku na lugosovem wiki https://wiki.lugos.si/slovenjenje:pojmovnik. Je pa vpra?anje, ?e je vredno iskati ekvivalent, saj je skript tako odli?en ... M! On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Vito Smolej wrote: > Pri Mozilli sva imela diskusijo z Matja?em in sva sklenila, da skripta -e > (f) nima ve? vstopa Mozillino lokalizacijo, pa? pa - kot geslovnik zaenkrat > predlaga, delno tudi SP - skript -a (m). O tem smo imeli tu > > http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english_to_slovenian/computers%3A_software/4780657-script.html > > ?ivahno diskusijo. Sedaj je kot je, ampak lepo bi bilo, ko bi si z malo > domi?ljije (sreda na matematiki_ idr.) ustvarili malo bolj doma? ekvivalent. > > LP > > Vito > > _______________________________________________ > lugos-slo mailing list > lugos-slo at lugos.si > http://liste2.lugos.si/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lugos-slo >